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'Never trust the artist. Trust the tale. The proper function of a critic is to save the tale from the artist who created it.' D.H Lawrence
Gosh, our fandom is tiny. A minnow in an ocean full of whales and giant squid. For example a brief look at a single website reveals it be hosting over 480,000 Harry Potter fics and a Twilight fic that has received 11,000 reviews. Mind-buggering, isn't it?
Well fie and pffft to all that because as we know tiny is mighty! The standard of writing here is remarkably high. There's none of the I wrote this wen I was drunk, don't read its about me andm y friendz meeting the guys and there's' vampires. Lulz XD that infects bigger fandoms. I like the sense of community and being able to easily follow someone's work and appreciate their style. There are, of course, many other reasons why this place is so very, very splendid however for this blog I'm focussing only on the stories.
And yet, from this writer's point of view, there is one glaring problem with being in a fandom this small and that is that everyone is so nice. Don't get me wrong I adore the positive feedback I get, LOVE it, and appreciate the hell out of it. It goes straight through my eyes and into my ego wherein it lies like a mental hot-water bottle that makes me feel all warm and lovely. Whoever wrote the fic with 11,000 reviews must be the happiest person on Earth, imagine receiving that much love.
But as well as finding writing DAAS fic the most fun I can possibly have whilst clothed and without Mr Capsy, I'd also like to be better at it, and I think that a large part of improvement comes from constructive criticism.
Criticism is a negative word; in the world of fanfiction there are trolls, there are flame wars, and other things that can cause upset for no reason other than that some people get off on using the anonymity of the interweb to be mean. Even the worst, most misconceived and poorly spelled story in the world does not merit some swine coming along and writing 'You totally suck; hope you die in a fire' at the bottom of it.
ConCrit is the opposite of such malicious nastiness. ConCrit is positive, it's aim is to help the writer improve their story. ConCrit is short, easy to understand and complimentary, it is delivered with passion, often with wit, and always with sincerity. Just think, how much must a person be enjoying a story to want to take an active role in improving it?
ConCrit is not about pedantically finding fault with someone's work. I'm not for a second advocating that we all start picking each other up on grammar, spelling, and the most persnickety of details. Life's too short, we're only human, and there's a place for all that malarkey. But if, for example, I post something where people seem wildly OOC, or there's a time jump that doesn't make sense, or I drop a major cultural clanger, or something happens that's so implausible it throws you out of the story then I would love to be told.
So what exactly is ConCrit? There are lots of guides to writing it out there. I skimmed a few, and the advice essentially boils down to the following points:
- - Start with praise.
- - Say what you had a problem with.
- - Give tips on how to improve that bit.
- - End with praise.
Don't:
- - Offer ConCrit after reading something once, you may have misread it.
- - Say anything personal. This is about the story not the writer.
- - Say you don't like something without offering suggestions for improvement.
- - End on a downer.
Imagine that the next chapter of 'Pulse Nigh to Pulse' has Paul getting his sight back due to some vague medical mumble I've invented. Joy is unconfined. The End. An example of ConCrit would be:
'It's over? Oh, I was enjoying that, such a good story. I'm a bit confused because this is a sequel and in the first story Paul was still blind nineteen years later, could you write an epilogue explaining what happened? Although if getting his sight back is temporary, losing it again could be the plot for a whole other fic – that would be great, more stories from you.
Jesse was a good character and I think we need to be told what happened to him. At the moment he's just out there. Could you add a bit telling us whether he got caught or ran away or whatever? I think the story would be better if we knewfor certain because it's a bit up in the air.
I love that it ended so happily, especially liked the Womble joke. This story was a great read. Thank you.
ConCrit should always public. You may want to then discuss things in more detail using the PM system however ConCrit should first be out there for everyone to see and learn from, as it can often be applied to other stories, or may even provoke an interesting debate.
The problem with leaving ConCrit in this fandom is that it is very small and, as I wrote earlier, we're all very nice. Personally I shy away from it because I don't want to seem like a bitch and have my comments stand out amongst all the unalloyed praise. Although it is a rare occasion when it even crosses my mind, the overwhelming majority of fics on here are excellent and their mere existence makes me happy.
If anyone wants to get the ball rolling and leave ConCrit on something of mine then you are extremely welcome. Plus, I would be more than happy to return the favour because ultimately that is how I think ConCrit should be viewed: someone doing you a favour and helping you out a little. And what could be nicer than that?
Gosh, our fandom is tiny. A minnow in an ocean full of whales and giant squid. For example a brief look at a single website reveals it be hosting over 480,000 Harry Potter fics and a Twilight fic that has received 11,000 reviews. Mind-buggering, isn't it?
Well fie and pffft to all that because as we know tiny is mighty! The standard of writing here is remarkably high. There's none of the I wrote this wen I was drunk, don't read its about me andm y friendz meeting the guys and there's' vampires. Lulz XD that infects bigger fandoms. I like the sense of community and being able to easily follow someone's work and appreciate their style. There are, of course, many other reasons why this place is so very, very splendid however for this blog I'm focussing only on the stories.
And yet, from this writer's point of view, there is one glaring problem with being in a fandom this small and that is that everyone is so nice. Don't get me wrong I adore the positive feedback I get, LOVE it, and appreciate the hell out of it. It goes straight through my eyes and into my ego wherein it lies like a mental hot-water bottle that makes me feel all warm and lovely. Whoever wrote the fic with 11,000 reviews must be the happiest person on Earth, imagine receiving that much love.
But as well as finding writing DAAS fic the most fun I can possibly have whilst clothed and without Mr Capsy, I'd also like to be better at it, and I think that a large part of improvement comes from constructive criticism.
Criticism is a negative word; in the world of fanfiction there are trolls, there are flame wars, and other things that can cause upset for no reason other than that some people get off on using the anonymity of the interweb to be mean. Even the worst, most misconceived and poorly spelled story in the world does not merit some swine coming along and writing 'You totally suck; hope you die in a fire' at the bottom of it.
ConCrit is the opposite of such malicious nastiness. ConCrit is positive, it's aim is to help the writer improve their story. ConCrit is short, easy to understand and complimentary, it is delivered with passion, often with wit, and always with sincerity. Just think, how much must a person be enjoying a story to want to take an active role in improving it?
ConCrit is not about pedantically finding fault with someone's work. I'm not for a second advocating that we all start picking each other up on grammar, spelling, and the most persnickety of details. Life's too short, we're only human, and there's a place for all that malarkey. But if, for example, I post something where people seem wildly OOC, or there's a time jump that doesn't make sense, or I drop a major cultural clanger, or something happens that's so implausible it throws you out of the story then I would love to be told.
So what exactly is ConCrit? There are lots of guides to writing it out there. I skimmed a few, and the advice essentially boils down to the following points:
- - Start with praise.
- - Say what you had a problem with.
- - Give tips on how to improve that bit.
- - End with praise.
Don't:
- - Offer ConCrit after reading something once, you may have misread it.
- - Say anything personal. This is about the story not the writer.
- - Say you don't like something without offering suggestions for improvement.
- - End on a downer.
Imagine that the next chapter of 'Pulse Nigh to Pulse' has Paul getting his sight back due to some vague medical mumble I've invented. Joy is unconfined. The End. An example of ConCrit would be:
'It's over? Oh, I was enjoying that, such a good story. I'm a bit confused because this is a sequel and in the first story Paul was still blind nineteen years later, could you write an epilogue explaining what happened? Although if getting his sight back is temporary, losing it again could be the plot for a whole other fic – that would be great, more stories from you.
Jesse was a good character and I think we need to be told what happened to him. At the moment he's just out there. Could you add a bit telling us whether he got caught or ran away or whatever? I think the story would be better if we knewfor certain because it's a bit up in the air.
I love that it ended so happily, especially liked the Womble joke. This story was a great read. Thank you.
ConCrit should always public. You may want to then discuss things in more detail using the PM system however ConCrit should first be out there for everyone to see and learn from, as it can often be applied to other stories, or may even provoke an interesting debate.
The problem with leaving ConCrit in this fandom is that it is very small and, as I wrote earlier, we're all very nice. Personally I shy away from it because I don't want to seem like a bitch and have my comments stand out amongst all the unalloyed praise. Although it is a rare occasion when it even crosses my mind, the overwhelming majority of fics on here are excellent and their mere existence makes me happy.
If anyone wants to get the ball rolling and leave ConCrit on something of mine then you are extremely welcome. Plus, I would be more than happy to return the favour because ultimately that is how I think ConCrit should be viewed: someone doing you a favour and helping you out a little. And what could be nicer than that?
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tawg
12 February 2010 - 03:30 PM
Oh god, you had to go and bring ConCrit up again *buries head in hands* ConCrit has caused more flounces in this fandom than the 'moral dilemma' of RPS itself. In a way, this is great because it a) provides entertainment for all, and b) culls the weak, the stupid, and the flouncable. We tried introducing policies, we tried lecturing people on being nice, we tried pointing out that the last crit-spit was really just about two people not liking one another. It all amounted to dickery.
One thing I disagree with is that ConCrit should always be public. I usually throw whatever I think out there, but in some more rabid circles concrit can be met by flames from the author, or from the fans of the author. 'Interesting debate' can be pretty traumatic if your inbox is getting flooded with flames, hate male, and demeaning porn site promos. Be aware of how nutbar the fandom you are operating in is. This one is nice and friendly at the moment, but five years ago it wasn't, and two years from now it might not be.
My personal policy is this: if you want to get better, ask for help. I know people who reply to every positive comment with 'Great, but if you have any more feedback, this is my e-mail'. I make a big point of thanking people if they point out typos, formatting errors and other mistakes, rather than making excuses for them and not fixing them. I've been a (sometime traumatic, sometimes traumatising) beta reader, and asked for betas myself. As nice as it is for someone to be thinking about your work enough to give you some dense, honest feedback, it's not the responsibility of the community to get you into better shape as a writer. Make the first move by asking for help and feedback. *exit soapbox*
One thing I disagree with is that ConCrit should always be public. I usually throw whatever I think out there, but in some more rabid circles concrit can be met by flames from the author, or from the fans of the author. 'Interesting debate' can be pretty traumatic if your inbox is getting flooded with flames, hate male, and demeaning porn site promos. Be aware of how nutbar the fandom you are operating in is. This one is nice and friendly at the moment, but five years ago it wasn't, and two years from now it might not be.
My personal policy is this: if you want to get better, ask for help. I know people who reply to every positive comment with 'Great, but if you have any more feedback, this is my e-mail'. I make a big point of thanking people if they point out typos, formatting errors and other mistakes, rather than making excuses for them and not fixing them. I've been a (sometime traumatic, sometimes traumatising) beta reader, and asked for betas myself. As nice as it is for someone to be thinking about your work enough to give you some dense, honest feedback, it's not the responsibility of the community to get you into better shape as a writer. Make the first move by asking for help and feedback. *exit soapbox*
capsy_wennet
12 February 2010 - 11:59 PM
Wow, we've had such different experiences of ConCrit. In my last fandom - The West Wing - ConCrit was part of the culture and had nothing to do with entertainment or culling. It was a positive thing, what you experienced sounds like a nightmare. Strange to think that five years ago this was a crazy, flame war kind of fandom, so glad that's no longer the case.
I don't think it is the responsibility of this community to get me personally into better shape as a writer. What I do think is that if people felt relaxed about ConCrit then on the rare occasions someone wanted to leave some they'd feel able to without coming across as a demon. The result benefits everyone - better writers, better stories. I wasn't asking for special treatment.
Your experiences of fandom are clearly broader than mine, and I can now see that what I've written must seem a little innocent. I didn't think that ConCrit could kick off flames, hate mail and porn promos being sent to people because it seems such a good thing to me.
Thanks, tawg, you've given me a lot to think about.
I don't think it is the responsibility of this community to get me personally into better shape as a writer. What I do think is that if people felt relaxed about ConCrit then on the rare occasions someone wanted to leave some they'd feel able to without coming across as a demon. The result benefits everyone - better writers, better stories. I wasn't asking for special treatment.
Your experiences of fandom are clearly broader than mine, and I can now see that what I've written must seem a little innocent. I didn't think that ConCrit could kick off flames, hate mail and porn promos being sent to people because it seems such a good thing to me.
Thanks, tawg, you've given me a lot to think about.
Mama Flame
13 February 2010 - 01:41 PM
I'm always willing to leave ConCrit but it's hard when the writing is so good, and that's not only yours. If something doesn't make sense I will point it out but it is something I've always sucked at.
When I first found DAAS Fiction (the original) and started posting it was mainly "oh wow"; "brilliant"; "more" with the odd bit of advice thrown in (thank goodness, otherwise I wouldn't have improved). Then we had a mini war b/c ppl were sick of those 'unhelpful comments' so then no one wanted to comment. Those sick of the fandom pissed off, after making a big who-ha out of it all, and just a small group of us die-hard sad fuckers stayed behind.
I'm finding that the feedback that we're now getting is 100% better than I've ever read on the board (although when ppl seem to want to quote most of the story it irks me a bit). At one stage a writer was lucky to get a
, and that's no joke!
If a story flows, reads well, and gives entertainment to me as a reader - to the point that I can picture it in my mind - then the writer has achieved what they set out to achieve. In that instance there's no need for me to nik-pick just for the hell of it.
Oh, and I do love you b/c you've helped to breath new life into our little corner of the web
When I first found DAAS Fiction (the original) and started posting it was mainly "oh wow"; "brilliant"; "more" with the odd bit of advice thrown in (thank goodness, otherwise I wouldn't have improved). Then we had a mini war b/c ppl were sick of those 'unhelpful comments' so then no one wanted to comment. Those sick of the fandom pissed off, after making a big who-ha out of it all, and just a small group of us die-hard sad fuckers stayed behind.
I'm finding that the feedback that we're now getting is 100% better than I've ever read on the board (although when ppl seem to want to quote most of the story it irks me a bit). At one stage a writer was lucky to get a
, and that's no joke!If a story flows, reads well, and gives entertainment to me as a reader - to the point that I can picture it in my mind - then the writer has achieved what they set out to achieve. In that instance there's no need for me to nik-pick just for the hell of it.
Oh, and I do love you b/c you've helped to breath new life into our little corner of the web
tawg
19 February 2010 - 07:28 PM
Like I said: if you want it, ask for it. Some people are happy writing and concrit ruins their day. Some people are happy reading, and get grumpy when they feel obliged to write more than 'story good, more nao plz'. Lead by example - ask for it yourself, offer it yourself, and make yourself available to help people if they want it. And if they don't, hey, move on. Concrit currently isn't part of the culture here. Like I said, that could change for the better, or the worse, or not at all. It'll be interesting to see where your example leads people
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